Mecha of all types.

[EnsignRyusei]

I think its ok so far.

And i really love the grunt mech designs, especially the Tieren. Feels like a mix of a Zaku and something from Front Mission

[bfg00]

I wasn't aware they were out.  Thanks for the heads up.  I'm gonna check them out right now.

[Ellendesu]

I saw a mecha anime at college last Saturday and I don't remember what the shit it was called, but it was pretty cool, very cartoony and the robots were called "Ganmen" or something, and they were like in a giant walking ship and some hot chick with a rifle named Yoko was in it. Any ideas?

[R-9]

I saw a mecha anime at college last Saturday and I don't remember what the shit it was called, but it was pretty cool, very cartoony and the robots were called "Ganmen" or something, and they were like in a giant walking ship and some hot chick with a rifle named Yoko was in it. Any ideas?

That would be Gurren Lagann, most likely.

[Ellendesu]

OH DATS IT

tanks

[DualSoul]

That would be Gurren Lagann, most likely.

Probably one of , if not the best, anime of 2007.

[EnsignRyusei]

Probably one of , if not the best, anime of 2007.

Seconded.

As for Gundam 00, it seems decent enough so far

[bfg00]

Yeah, after seeing the first 2 eps I will agree with that sentiment.  I'm curious to see where they take it.  However I do have a complaint having to do with either the translation or if its not the translator's fault then their science consultant (if they have one) should be shot.  In the second episode they mention (at least in the sub that I watched) at the beginning that they have an array of solar panels encircling the Earth that extends for 50,000,000 km.  Lets do some math shall we?

1. Distance between the Earth and Sun: 149,000,000 km; so they are saying that they managed to build an array that if stretched out straight would reach a third of the way to the sun?  Where the heck did they get the material for that?  Hell you could reach Venus with that amount of material (if it was straight across from us).

2. If this encircles the Earth and does it only in one pass then the radius of the circle must be 8,000,000 km.  This is larger than the distance between the Earth and the Moon which is 384,000 km.  This means that since it is tethered to the space elevators then the entire system is severly effected by the orbit of the Moon.  In fact the Moon would run into the space elevators eventually.

3.  In order to have a stable space elevator the center of mass has to be at GEO (Geosynchronous Orbit) which exists at a distance of 42,000 km.  If this is the true location of the ring then the circumference of the ring would be 264,000 km.  If their length is 50,000,000 km this means that the ring must encircle the earth at least 189 times.

4. Given a solar panel size of say 1 km in radius (just for the sake of an estimate).  Your total collecting area would be 50,000,000 km^2.  If you calculate the total power output you end up with something on the order of 7x10^16 Watts.  This is 1000 times the amount of energy used today.  I'm not really arguing this point its just a point of curiousity.

Given the size of the earth from the ring around it I would say that they actually wanted it stationed at GEO. Either someone messed up in their math, threw out a random number that sounded big enough, or the translation got screwed up.  Usually Gundam is pretty good at keeping things at least mostly scientifically correct or plausible.

Sorry for the math, this is what happens when you are an astrophysicist watching a scifi.

[JG]

Yeah, after seeing the first 2 eps I will agree with that sentiment.  I'm curious to see where they take it.  However I do have a complaint having to do with either the translation or if its not the translator's fault then their science consultant (if they have one) should be shot.  In the second episode they mention (at least in the sub that I watched) at the beginning that they have an array of solar panels encircling the Earth that extends for 50,000,000 km.  Lets do some math shall we?

1. Distance between the Earth and Sun: 149,000,000 km; so they are saying that they managed to build an array that if stretched out straight would reach a third of the way to the sun?  Where the heck did they get the material for that?  Hell you could reach Venus with that amount of material (if it was straight across from us).

2. If this encircles the Earth and does it only in one pass then the radius of the circle must be 8,000,000 km.  This is larger than the distance between the Earth and the Moon which is 384,000 km.  This means that since it is tethered to the space elevators then the entire system is severly effected by the orbit of the Moon.  In fact the Moon would run into the space elevators eventually.

3.  In order to have a stable space elevator the center of mass has to be at GEO (Geosynchronous Orbit) which exists at a distance of 42,000 km.  If this is the true location of the ring then the circumference of the ring would be 264,000 km.  If their length is 50,000,000 km this means that the ring must encircle the earth at least 189 times.

4. Given a solar panel size of say 1 km in radius (just for the sake of an estimate).  Your total collecting area would be 50,000,000 km^2.  If you calculate the total power output you end up with something on the order of 7x10^16 Watts.  This is 1000 times the amount of energy used today.  I'm not really arguing this point its just a point of curiousity.

Given the size of the earth from the ring around it I would say that they actually wanted it stationed at GEO. Either someone messed up in their math, threw out a random number that sounded big enough, or the translation got screwed up.  Usually Gundam is pretty good at keeping things at least mostly scientifically correct or plausible.

Sorry for the math, this is what happens when you are an astrophysicist watching a scifi.

I've not seen this series but this concept fascinates me.  If you'll allow me to offer my thoughts:

1. I am almost certain it would be circular (or oval or oblong).  The stress on a straight or unclosed curved form of such immense size would be too much. Better to build it round and enclosed and allow centrifugal physics to help stablize the shape.  Depends on thickness but I imagine at a few centimeters wide you could probably scrounge up most of that material from the asteroid belt, if you found sufficient amounts of silicates and other required heavy metals.

2. Perhaps the elevators/tethers are not physical but electromagnetic or some other energetic form that can be broken and reconstructed at will.  Or, more likely, the solar ring is not oriented along the same plane the moon travels but at a highly inclined orbit.  Thus, you could have permanent tethers at high latitudes that remain outside of the moon's sweep.  Ideally, the ring would be inclined at about 60 degrees to the earth (and 90 degrees to the sun), so that its entire surface is always pointed at the sun. At very low inclinations, the ring would be routinely eclipsed by the earth, moon, or perigeeal side of the ring itself, reducing its effeciency - furthermore, both sides of the ring must be coated in solar panels to recieve solar energy in this fashion (or your panels are only useful 50% of the time).  At a right angle to the sun, only one side needs to be coated. (Furthermore, Van Allen belt radiation would be at minimum in this orientation, further reducing things you'd have to worry about.)

3. 42,000 km is geostationary for any unpowered object.  You could get something at different altitudes to orbit at the same rate the earth spins but it takes expenditure of power.  At the size we're talking, the ring would have to spin at a rate of 580km/sec - wow.  In short, I don't think it could be geostationary at that size, nor could the tethers be anything but energetic and temporary.

4. We undoubtedly use many thousands of times more power now than a century ago.  It stands to reason the future Earth would require similarly more power than we use today.  I'd be more inclined to the think that the ring is much thinnner (on the order of 10-50 meters wide) but comprised of much more efficient solar panels than we have today.

Barring the geostationary bit, I think its a reasonable idea.  Don't know how they would account for devestating coronal mass ejections though.

[Trapani21]

Seconded.

As for Gundam 00, it seems decent enough so far

How many Gundam series does this one make?

[R-9]

Fifteen, if you count OVAs.

[Cashino]

Bit of meta-Gundam-trivia:

Yoshiyuki Tomino, who wrote MS Gundam (the original series) also wrote Brave Raideen (which was his first work), which is a spiritual predecessor to RahXephon and among (if not THE) first robot portrayed as a spiritual/sentiant being rather than a tool or bucket of bolts and super-metals.

[Trapani21]

Fifteen, if you count OVAs.

damn, that's a lot of mech mayhem.

[R-9]

damn, that's a lot of mech mayhem.

And this isn't counting things like movies, manga side-stories (SEED Astray, for ex.), computer animations, novels, and manga re-imaginings ( Like Gundam: the Origin).

[bfg00]

I've not seen this series but this concept fascinates me.  If you'll allow me to offer my thoughts:

1. I am almost certain it would be circular (or oval or oblong).  The stress on a straight or unclosed curved form of such immense size would be too much. Better to build it round and enclosed and allow centrifugal physics to help stablize the shape.  Depends on thickness but I imagine at a few centimeters wide you could probably scrounge up most of that material from the asteroid belt, if you found sufficient amounts of silicates and other required heavy metals.

2. Perhaps the elevators/tethers are not physical but electromagnetic or some other energetic form that can be broken and reconstructed at will.  Or, more likely, the solar ring is not oriented along the same plane the moon travels but at a highly inclined orbit.  Thus, you could have permanent tethers at high latitudes that remain outside of the moon's sweep.  Ideally, the ring would be inclined at about 60 degrees to the earth (and 90 degrees to the sun), so that its entire surface is always pointed at the sun. At very low inclinations, the ring would be routinely eclipsed by the earth, moon, or perigeeal side of the ring itself, reducing its effeciency - furthermore, both sides of the ring must be coated in solar panels to recieve solar energy in this fashion (or your panels are only useful 50% of the time).  At a right angle to the sun, only one side needs to be coated. (Furthermore, Van Allen belt radiation would be at minimum in this orientation, further reducing things you'd have to worry about.)

3. 42,000 km is geostationary for any unpowered object.  You could get something at different altitudes to orbit at the same rate the earth spins but it takes expenditure of power.  At the size we're talking, the ring would have to spin at a rate of 580km/sec - wow.  In short, I don't think it could be geostationary at that size, nor could the tethers be anything but energetic and temporary.

4. We undoubtedly use many thousands of times more power now than a century ago.  It stands to reason the future Earth would require similarly more power than we use today.  I'd be more inclined to the think that the ring is much thinnner (on the order of 10-50 meters wide) but comprised of much more efficient solar panels than we have today.

Barring the geostationary bit, I think its a reasonable idea.  Don't know how they would account for devestating coronal mass ejections though.

1. Certainly that is true but a solid ring is unstable under the force of gravity.  Also looking at the animation the cable definitely weren't  a few cm thick.  Not to mention they had huge solar panels on them.

2. If you incline the ring you can't tether it to the earth and have it in a stable orbit.  The earth is a solid body rotator which means that at different latitudes your oribital path will be different for Geosynch.  You could have a ring inclined to the earth but it wouldn't be attached to anything.  Also anything of the order of the moons orbit is going to have to contend with its gravitational force.  Also you will have to worry about the solar wind if you are out that far.  The moon is outside of the Earth's magnetosphere which means that if you had something like that out that far you would have to take the solar wind into account.  Hell you could probably use the gigantic ring you build and generate a current just due to the magnetic flux flowing through the ring.

3. I agree with this point.

4. I think there are probably cheaper and better ways to get power than a project of this scale.  Nonetheless it is an intriguing idea but probably unfeasible.

5. It really depends on where it is in the Earth's Magnetosphere.  If its outside then you get the full force which will probably generate some nasty currents in a conducting ring this large.

[JG]

1. I was accounting for some measure of flexibility to handle the stress of gravity, solar wind and other various forces.  I feel that being very thin (centimeter scale) would certainly help it in this regard.  8 million km is 21 or 22 times as far away as the moon, so the only gravitational effect is going to the be a wobble in the overall gravitational field.  The ring at that size could easily accomodate a 28 day processional warp to it.

2. I think point 3 makes any tethering to the Earth completely bogus.  You could logically do it at the poles but I think its better off not to have any and let it float free.

4. I don't think there's any other method that could generate such enormous amounts of power at practically no cost of upkeep (granted there's a huge setup cost.)  If it was unthethered, perhaps you could convert the electricity into microwaves or something and then reconvert on the surface (you'd lose alot in the conversions but you're taking in far more than enough to worry about efficiency)

5. If the moon is outside and the ring is another 20 times farther way (ond on a vertical plane no less), it too is outside the earth's discharge field.  Frankly I think you'd generate more electricity inside the magnetosphere though, where the upper atmosphere strips free electrons from atoms in the solar wind. You wouldn't even need solar panels, just a great big conductor to channel it.


I think we may need a practical science board now.

[Mirai Doft]

Wow. Are you guys from NASA or something? So many difficult words... everything... is spinning... @__@

[Trapani21]

Wow. Are you guys from NASA or something? So many difficult words... everything... is spinning... @__@

smile and nod in agreement...maybe they won't notice

[bfg00]

Wow. Are you guys from NASA or something? So many difficult words... everything... is spinning... @__@

Nope, I have my BS in Physics and I'm currently working on my PhD in Astrophysics at the University of Minnesota.  I do simulations of particle acceleration in astrophysical shocks.

As far as JG's points are concerned:

1. I agree but you will need some sort of propulsion to counter the solar wind if you are at that scale.  Also it would not be tethered to the Earth.

2. I also agree.

4. Well there is no free lunch is there.  Microwaves may work or you could if you really wanted to make a giant mirror and reflect the light down to the surface to undergo conversion there (but that's a whole new can of worms).

5.  Actually I think the dominant contributor to the electrical current in the conducting ring won't be the free electrons from the local plasma but rather from the changing flux of the magnetic field (Faraday's Law).  For just a back of the envelope calculation just taking the normal solar cycle of 11 years, and the normal solar wind magnetic field of about a nanoTesla you end up with an ElectroMotiveForce of about 45 kiloVolts, not too shabby.  Of course the magnitude and direction of the magnetic field in the solar wind changes faster than that but I don't have any of the timescales or magnitudes handy but I imagine you could could get some decent power out of it.  Heck the Earth's own Ring Current has a decent current to it if you could tap it (I don't remember the amperage of the top of my head).

A forum for this stuff might be fun, though I'm not sure if any one else would participate.

[Trapani21]

Nope, I have my BS in Physics and I'm currently working on my PhD in Astrophysics at the University of Minnesota.  I do simulations of particle acceleration in astrophysical shocks.

As far as JG's points are concerned:

1. I agree but you will need some sort of propulsion to counter the solar wind if you are at that scale.  Also it would not be tethered to the Earth.

2. I also agree.

4. Well there is no free lunch is there.  Microwaves may work or you could if you really wanted to make a giant mirror and reflect the light down to the surface to undergo conversion there (but that's a whole new can of worms).

5.  Actually I think the dominant contributor to the electrical current in the conducting ring won't be the free electrons from the local plasma but rather from the changing flux of the magnetic field (Faraday's Law).  For just a back of the envelope calculation just taking the normal solar cycle of 11 years, and the normal solar wind magnetic field of about a nanoTesla you end up with an ElectroMotiveForce of about 45 kiloVolts, not too shabby.  Of course the magnitude and direction of the magnetic field in the solar wind changes faster than that but I don't have any of the timescales or magnitudes handy but I imagine you could could get some decent power out of it.  Heck the Earth's own Ring Current has a decent current to it if you could tap it (I don't remember the amperage of the top of my head).

A forum for this stuff might be fun, though I'm not sure if any one else would participate.

which course you taking?