It's a thread! (Games discussion, etc.)

[JG]

And now I've completed Hero Mode as well!

Phew. That's on par with original Legend of Zelda Master Quest and Zelda II: Adventure of Link in terms of difficulty.  Only reason its behind those two is thanks to Guardian Potion+ use during the final two battles (I used two GP+s and a dose of HP++ to clear the ending battles, starting from the Temple).  Oh and you do get some hearts available about mid-way through the game but you have to use one of your eight pouches to hold a Heart Medal (instead of somehting more useful, like a bottle), and even then they only show up with about a half the frequency of regular mode and do you no good in boss fights.

I still think its the best game I've played since the original BioShock, too.  Shame its getting the upturned nose from all the video game awards fools.

[Moge]

Not since the 16-bit days have i felt any sort of challenge in the combat of Zelda; Skyward Sword is just the fix i've been looking for.

I have a copy sitting around, but i sold my Wii recently to help pay for my hypothetical Wii U.

[JG]

Not since the 16-bit days have i felt any sort of challenge in the combat of Zelda

That's funny, becuase the only 16-bit game in the series, A Link to the Past, is generally considered the easiest.

And I agree.  I'd say its slighter harder than the rediculously easy Wind Waker in main game difficulty, but WW has many more sidequests is rather hard to finish with all treasures and heart pieces found. 


How I'd rank them in difficulty (easiest to toughest, assuming 100% completion and both regular and Master/Hero Mode quests if available)
A Link to the Past
Four Swords Adventures
Link's Awakening
Ocarina of Time
Ocarina of Time: Master Quest (treating this a seperate game since it comes on it's own disc)
Minish Cap
Oracle of Ages (assuming back to back playthrough with OoS to unlock the final battle)
Oracle of Seasons (assuming back to back playthrough with OoA to unlock the final battle)
Spirit Tracks
The Wind Waker (easiest if not going for 100%)
Twilight Princess
Phantom Hourglass
Majora's Mask
The Legend of Zelda
Skyward Sword (easier than LoZ's Master Quest if you leave out the Thunder Dragon's challenge and thereby skip getting the Hylian Shield, but not LoZ's regular quest)
Adventure of Link

[Moge]

You're right when you say ALttP being easy peasy. Haven't replayed the game not since the late 90's, so my memory's a bit fuzzy. 

If you ever get a chance i would highly recommend playing through BS Zelda, my personal favorite. Strange choice, but i feel the game holds up very well today despite being the most simplistic Zelda (essentially the first game with a 16-bit facelift).

[JG]

You're right when you say ALttP being easy peasy. Haven't replayed the game not since the late 90's, so my memory's a bit fuzzy.

I just played through it again last week in two evenings and without dying I beleive I used just two fairies and one red potion, completing the game with a triple zero on the ending screen.  It's both very short (under 10 hours) and very easy.  Don't get me wrong, its still fun; it just goes by so quickly.

If you ever get a chance i would highly recommend playing through BS Zelda

I've got the ROM but its either corrupt or I need to update my ZSNES. :/
I could use some help combining a ROM and emulator that work.

[Moge]

I've got the ROM but its either corrupt or I need to update my ZSNES. :/
I could use some help combining a ROM and emulator that work.

Everything you'll need is right here -- http://bszelda.zeldalegends.net/bs1files.shtml

The one i played was The Legend of Zelda - Third Quest. In my opinion it's not a Zelda game if you're not playing as Link (Zelda is also playable in this one).

You'll need either BSNES or SNES9x to play BS Zelda.

[Moge]

What's your take on Other M, JGOO?

Are you as repulsed as every other Metroid fan who's played the game?

[JG]

Well, we saw what happened when Nintendo gave up creative control of the Star Fox franchise and watched it nosedive into the ground.  Nintendo's passed off control over the Metroid franchise to Tecmo, and it's not quite what we'd like to see.

The good:
* Great story, if it is a little reminscient of Metroid Fusion (trapped on a space station, have to navigate between "sectors", experiments to revive enemies/creatures you thought were dead, etc.)
* Gives a lot of background on how Samus's military career went, but doesn't say much about her early history (ie, how Ripley killed her parents, how she came to acquire the powersuit, etc.)
* Fills the hole in the story between Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion.  The entire Prime series was placed between the original Metroid and Super Metroid chronologically, so it's nice to see a true sequel.  It literally picks up right after the destruction of Zebes, Mother Brain, and the baby Metroid at the end of Super Metroid.
* The graphics really are spectacular, especially the Lava Lake in Sector 3. Like the Prime series, the designers spent a long time working on how the environment looks and it shows. Alot of people think you need HD graphics these days and this game proves you don't.
* Samus has some pretty slick acrobatic moves.  When your charge beam is fully charged, she can dodge attacks or pull off executions on downed or wounded enemies.  This is why Samus would kick the Master Chief's ass in a firefight.
* It's 3D but you hold the control sideways like an NES controller.  It gives the game a very classic feel, until... (see Ugly)

The bad:
* Some of the dialogue and personal thoughts of Samus are rather poorly written. (Oh, there's a bad guy running around killing the other soliders. I'll just call him the Deleter for the fun of it, rather than something normal, like "traitor", "spy", or "saboteur".)
* Killing creatures doesn't gain you health or missile recharges like EVERY OTHER Metroid game.  I feel this is a major failure of the gameplay mechanics.  There is a reward for killing creatures in some rooms though, which highlight the location of hidden items in the room.  However, becuase of the lack of health recharges, there's a save station every 5 or 6 rooms, meaning they're just too damn common.
* It also means you die too easily.  The game is based on the concept of non-stop action, so every 5 or 6 rooms (what a surprise) you have a boss or mini-boss fight of sorts, which you're pretty likely to die fighting the first time or two you take them on.
* At least when you die, you don't always have to start over at the last save point (sometimes right at the beginning of the boss fight), so you pick up pretty much right where you left off.  This begs the question though, why so many save stations around, solely to recharge your health, when saving isn't really required that often?
* I seem to be nearing the end of the game (based on how many upgrades I've acquired) and I still don't know exactly what the other "M" is yet.  There's some possibilities, but the story hasn't made it clear yet.  This might end up being in the good category though if its revealed in the end as I expect it will be.

The ugly:
* You have to flip the controller forward to face the screen in order to fire missiles.  And you have to press and hold A to lock on before firing them.  And you can't move in this mode.  There are numerous problems with this mode: enemies move way too fast so you get hit trying to shoot missiles almost all the time (meaning you get mauled by the enemy); press A too quick and you enter morph ball mode instead of firing off a missile (meaning you get mauled by the enemy); and standing still doesn't improve your chances to dodge enemy attacks (meaning you get mauled by the enemy)

If they'd just come up with a way to shoot missiles on the run, maybe by pressing 1 to switch between blaster and missile mode, ala original Metroid, it would be a pretty good game.  As it is, you're doing your damndest not to ever get hit and to avoid using missile mode in the boss fights as much as possible, and that takes away from the fun a bit.  If you can tolerate dying every so often against a mini-boss and three or four times against each major boss before beating them, then you might like it.  If dying in games frustrates you, maybe you oughta pass.


Maybe a 6 out of 10.  Metroid series fans will like the history and the story, but not the gameplay so much.  Non-Metroid fans will probably just hate it, period.

[Moge]

Isn't Sakamoto to blame for Other M? He's the director after all, and was also in charge of Super and Fusion.

Abhor having to play the Wii remote sideways, namely because the dpad is absolute horrendous.

Plz let the gimmicks end next gen, Nintendy!

[JG]

Abhor having to play the Wii remote sideways, namely because the dpad is absolute horrendous.

The newer RemotePlus controllers seem to be a little better in dpad control.  Do wish you could use GameCube controllers for these games instead though.  The dpad works okay in Other M though because there's rarely a need to use diagonals (Point Samus in one of the four cardinal directions and she'll shoot directly at any enemies in that quadrant, whether they're exactly in front of her or not.)

My big compaint about holding sideways (and regularly) is the shape of the controller.  Nintendo's always been big about ergonomics since the Super Famicom days and then made a complete fail with the boxy Wii Remote, which they had to post-fix with the plastic sleeves.  The sleeves fixed regular play control ergonomics, but made sideways play even worse.  Then they made the Remote Plus addon, but since it attaches tot he bottom of the wand, it moves the 1 & 2 buttons out of reach for most people when held sideways, so they had to post-fix that with a regular sized controller containing the Plus features built in.  Its a comedy of errors.

[Moge]

I can understand why people hate the Gamecube controller (wasn't a game changer, confused noobs and devs alike), but really that thing could have been the perfect controller for the Wii (need the A-button to be the focal point? no problem).

Extending your thumb to reach the 1/2/+/- buttons was always cumbersome. At least on the cube pad the b/x/y buttons were within a reasonable pressing distance.

Why Nintendo

[Moge]

Have you made a reservation for Xenoblade, JGOO?

[JG]

Haven't seen anybody offer any pre-order deals for it yet. 

Plus I'm on the fence about it.  I don't have a lot of time these days for massive 100+ hour RPGs, so I have to evaulate these games closely before committing.  It's been getting remarkable reviews and rankings by critic sites/magazines though, so if it passes the muster of a YouTube gameplay video review, I'll be considering it.

Kid Icarus: Uprising comes out in a few days though, and that's pulling at my heartstrings pretty strongly (even though I don't yet have a 3DS). Xenoblade may take a back seat to that one.

[Moge]

My experience with Kid Icarus only goes as far as the Captain N cartoons, which upon rewatching last year, aren't very good.

Can't imagine Xenoblade as the kind of game that'll go down in price, and the stock will most likely be limited.

[JG]

Another advantage Xenoblade has: There's little on the horizon to interest me short of Paper Mario 4 sometime in the summer.  All the others are late in the year (Bioshock 3, Halo 4) or a release date hasn't been set, which I interpret as iffy for Christmas and more likely next year (Dragon Quest X, Luigi's Mansion 2).  MechWarrior Online is also scheduled for summer, but I seriously doubt its ready before much later in the year.



Kid Icarus is one of those old-school games that are innovative and simple to play but incredibly unforgiving.  It's a weird mix of Metroid and Zelda: three stages of linear play followed by a free-movement dungeon stage. When you defeat enemies you collect hearts as your currency () to buy items.  The more enemies you kill the higher your score gets and you get upgrades to your health once your score reaches certain levels (one of the earliest implementations of an experience system.)

Of course it's also got those old school-oddities.  For example, Pit has wings, but falling off the bottom of the screen kills him.


I'm getting the urge to play it again now....

[Moge]

Now that you have a 3DS, we should exchange friend codes, JGOO.

[JG]

Now that you have a 3DS, we should exchange friend codes, JGOO.

I never said I had one, but as chance has it Target's offering them at $15 off so I got one Sunday. I also took advantage of their buy two get one free deal and got Ocarina of Time, StarFox 64, and Super Mario Land 3D.  I got Kid Icarus at Best Buy becuase they had it $10 off and on top of that I had a $10 Rewards Zone certificate that was going to run out in early April.


My 3DS friend code is 1075-1638-3037.  So far I'd probably only be willing to compete in a StarFox firefight.

My Xbox Live username is lilisaur.  If you have FlatOut: Ultimate Carnage then I will immediately drop what I'm doing and make the time to blow you off the road.   Otherwise you might be able to convince me to play one of the more common shooting games series (Halo, BioShock, or Gears) but I generally suck at shooters so don't expect much.

I'm sure I have a Wii friend code, too, but the inernet play on Wii is lackluster at best and I can't think of any multiplayer games I own for it off the top of my head.

I don't own a PS3, so don't ask for PSN credentials.

[Moge]

Sent you a friend request on both systems.

My 3DS friend code -- 1547 5206 8571

Don't own a 360, but i do play on a friend's system every weekend.

Just padding out my friends list.

[JG]

So I completed Kid Icarus: Uprising yesterday.  Yes I know it took me a long time but I thoroughly enjoyed it on the days I had time to play a level or two.  At just 25 levels it sounds like you should clear it in no time, but you end up playing each level at least 3 or 4 times to unlock all the treasure chests and bonuses, so it has exceptional replay value.  And with a 91-point difficulty slider (between 0.0 and 9.0) you can make each stage just a little harder than the last time you cleared it, so you can replay for a long, looooong time before you've fully cleared a stage.  I give this game a 9.5 out of 10.  If you've got a 3DS, get Kid Icarus becuase its going to be remembered as one of the staple games of the platform.

Pros:
* Lighthearted voiced commentary from the pantheons of gods and goddesses while you're fighting.  Really ingenious way of providing hints and such.  Fully voiced so there's got to be 3 hours or so of vocal tracks.
* Adjustable challenge slider (as opposed to the basic Easy, Medium, Hard, Really Hard type of static choices)
* Wide array of weapons, so each player can use what they like best (I like the Beam Claws)
* Weapon forge, including inheriting attributes of the weapons used
* Decent multiplayer experience (free-for-all and team battles), which can net you weapons for use in the solo campaign
* Decent story, though it gets off track a few times (ie, alien invasion that has almost nothing to do with the rest of the plot)
* A ton of challenges, such as complete level in under X minutes, defeat a specific enemy with a certain weapon or certain attack, etc.

Cons:
* High learning curve needed before you get use the unique play controls - a classic control stick and buttons method would have made more sense (you get the impression that Nintendo demanded that the stylus be used in some fashion).  Once you got used to it its fantastic for giving a full range of control but becuase you have to use the funny little stand it comes with, you lean over the 3DS while playing, so my back would wear out long before my mind or fingers.
* Doesn't make good use of the 3D system - its actually easier to play the game at a very low 3D setting or turned completely off.
* Sometimes the commentary says something while you're really busy avoiding enemy fire and you miss what was said.
* Really good weapons are exceptionally expensive; acquiring them by forging or via online methods is far easier
* You get hardly anything for selling a weapon (between 5 and 10% the value you'd pay for the same)
* Would be nice to be able to change weapons in the middle of a stage
* Too much emphasis on the Defense attribute of a weapon, to the near complete devaluation of every other attribute.  A defense +4 weapon with no other attributes is immensely more useful than a defense +2 weapon that has several other attributes, becuase you can take so much more damage.  By comparison, a defense +8 weapon is so underpowered offensively that its nigh unusable except for a decoy target in multiplayer: sure you can take damage but you can't deal it back out at that much investment in defense. (My beam claws are +3)
* Can't use your "spells" when flying, specifically the healing power, so its easier to die while flying due to infrequency of recovery items
* Too much emphasis on putting the healing power in your solo campaign repetoire.  You only have a certain number of spaces for powers, and since healing is so useful you just about always would rather have it than some attack or special effect power.  It also takes up 11 of your 36 slots, so it limits how many other powers you can take with you into battle, to the point that you never take some of them into battle, which reduces the complexity that the game could have provided if you were instead forced to take a few powers with you on certain stages.
* The higher challenge levels are absurdly difficult.  I managed to beat the first level of 9.0, but barely.  One challenge is to beat all 25 levels at 9.0 and that's got to be rediculously hard.  Doable I'm sure, but you'd need an immensely powerful weapon and be the king of dodging. (especially levels 4, 7, 9, 10, and 18, which I find to be the most difficult)

[Moge]

While i have yet to play Kid Icarus, it's nice to see a fresh IP from Nintendo that isn't one of their usual suspects. Probably will pick it up sometime this year.