It's a thread! (Games discussion, etc.)

[JG]

I think Sony and Microsoft were more focused on native 4k for PS5/Series X games than upscaling PS4/One games to 4k at 60fps. They are counting on two or three years down the road that nobody will care that the previous generation of games play at lower framerates, only that they do play. I've been burned in the past by MechAssault (despite being one of the original Xbox's best sellers) not being playable on the 60, by FlatOut: Ultimate Carnage not being playable on the Xbox One (due to bankrupcty of the publisher and inability of Microsoft to acquire a license for the new system), and the age old problem of the PS2 requiring PS1 memory cards. I had to find a memory card at a thrift shop because even Gamestop had stopped selling them. I can take lower framerate if it means 99%+ of games will play with no additional costs.

I've never quite understood the whole 30 vs 60 fps debate anyway. Theater movies only run at 24 fps and you don't hear people screaming about it like they do video games. 30 fps is perfectly fine. More is welcome but I see it as optional, not the requirement that some people do. Even if you can visually tell the difference between 30 and 60, what does one earlier frame give you in game terms? The human body isn't capable of reacting fast enough to pull your joystick or press a button quickly enough to make a significant difference to gameplay. if you care more about gameplay than visuals (as I do) then 60fps matters little. If only matters a lot to people who put the visuals ahead of gameplay.

[Moge]

30 fps is absolutely fine for most contemporary games, the sweeping single-player adventure variety. I tend to prefer 60 fps however for anything frenetic or has few animation frames, like 2D games or fighting games. 2D games especially feel very strange when running at 30 fps, considering most retro games back in the day ran at 60 fps.

The power increase for the next Switch will be hugely beneficial to 3rd party studios that don't have Nintendo's technical wizardry with the hardware. I can't think of a better example than Deadly Premonition 2, which sank to single digit framerates in the overworld. Basically, Nintendo needs to maintain some parity with the nextgen so developers aren't left with having to make huge concessions on getting their games running. Think back to the Wii. Publishers saw little return in investment having to cook up a unique version of their multiplatform games for the system.

[JG]

most retro games back in the day ran at 60 fps.

Retro was not running 60fps. NTSC is 29.97 fps and PAL 25 fps regardless of using coaxial cable, s-video, av or component cables. You couldn't get 60fps on consoles until they provided HDMI ports. Only PC got 60fps and perhaps some arcade games provided a faster refresh with custom monitors but home stuff was limited to the regional standard (NTSC for most of the world and PAL for Europe, and a few other countries)

The power increase for the next Switch will be hugely beneficial to 3rd party studios that don't have Nintendo's technical wizardry with the hardware. I can't think of a better example than Deadly Premonition 2, which sank to single digit framerates in the overworld. Basically, Nintendo needs to maintain some parity with the nextgen so developers aren't left with having to make huge concessions on getting their games running. Think back to the Wii. Publishers saw little return in investment having to cook up a unique version of their multiplatform games for the system.

On this I agree. Switch is only recently getting PS4/One games. And if a developer wants to make a game for all three systems it has to develop for the lowest common denominator, which is Switch. That means for games that require powerful graphics (Doom, Crysis) or those that demand a lot of memory (Dragon Quest Builders 2), the next iteration in those series may not be possible on the standard Switch without a serious cutback in capability. I love DQB2 and want DQB3 to be as good as it can, which means that even if I'd buy the PS5 version I'd want a powerful Switch Pro/Super Switch on the market by the time its announced so I know DQB3 is not stuck with the same limitations DQB2 has.

I think Nintendo was going to announce the Pro/Super at E3 with Breath of the Wild sequel as its primary launch title, but now that it's been cancelled its unclear. They'll probably have a Treehouse event that week like they did last year but its going to be a bummer they can't have models on the floor with which to wow the visitors. Sony encountered this problem last year and it surprised people by how huge the PS5 was once it started shipping to reviewers.

[Moge]

29.97 fps is the fps of North American television shows (and 23.976 fps being the standard for films). Don't get that mixed with the fps of video games, which generally run at higher fps in the best-case scenario. Here's an old post on a retro game forum explaining it better than i can.

Framerate for old 2d/pixel/sprite based games did matter, but wasn't something we really thought about in America. For instance look at what people in Europe with PAL SNES systems had to deal with. PAL ran at 50 fps which appeared "slower". Once they got a taste of a US/JPN NTSC SNES/SFC running at a nice 60 fps, you saw a lot of Europeans importing consoles to play the games the way they were intended.

Here's a site that tests if your eyes can differentiate 60 and 30 fps. See a difference in the first and second row? -- https://www.testufo.com/

It would be very advantageous to Nintendo to push for much higher specs on the Switch. Not true nextgen but if they could get the system to reach PS4 and XB1 level, then i think that would be enough to convince the remaining Japanese publishers who put exclusive content on the Playstation to start putting them on the Switch Pro. Really, i just wanna see 13 Sentinels and Guilty Gear on the system

[JG]

You're right that the retro video game stuff usually was running 60 fps. I got mixed up with broadcast TV.

Here's a site that tests if your eyes can differentiate 60 and 30 fps. See a difference in the first and second row? -- https://www.testufo.com/

In all fairness that's running the UFOs at 960 pixels per second. NES and SNES for example only displayed 256 horizontal pixels and rarely had anything moving across screen in an equivalent .26 second. Maybe background stars in a few space shooters but I seriously doubt too many main character sprites. I checked the Mega Man II robot intro screens and the fastest stars cross in maybe 1.75 to 2 seconds, meaning a rate of about 125 pixels per second. You change the scrolling speed of that animation from 960 down to 120 and you're not going to see as big of a difference between the 30 and 60 fps rows. So again, it really doesn't matter than much for retro stuff.


In other news, Sony's got to do something about PS Store speed. While I appreciate them offering a quality game like Ratchet & Clank for free, the download time was utterly abysmal.

Speedtest gives me a download speed between 50 and 60 Mbps about just about every time I check (once or twice a year). That's a download speed of about 6.5 megabytes per second. The game is 25.539 GB in size. At full throttle, this should have taken me around 3,929 seconds to download, or about an hour and 6 minutes. I'd have been content if it was even up in the 4 or 5 hour range. Being free I'd have even settled for overnight in the 12 hour timeframe since I'd not started it until Thursday evening anyway and was content to let the machine run overnight. Yet it was 50 hours, 24 minutes, self-suspending twice due to loss of connection (meaning total download time may have been closer to 48 hours.) That's 181,440 seconds, a throughput of about .14 megabytes per second or 1.12 Mbps - low end DSL speed. If the PS Store can only supply 1/46th of the bandwidth I can soak up, that's intolerable. (For the record, the game became playable at the 9 hour, 44 minute mark, but total data took the remaining 40 hours and 40 minutes.)

[Moge]

Apparently, The Evil Within and Nier Automata for GamePass for PC are entirely new ports. All the bugs from the shoddy Steam releases have been fixed and include plenty of other additional enhancements.

Microsoft certainly didn't have to do this, but it can't be understated the amount of work Microsoft is putting into making GamePass such an incredible service at a bargain. For once, Steam might actually have some competition (sorry Epic).

[Moge]

Any thoughts and opinions on the Gamecube Controller, JGOO? It's been so long since i used one that i miss it. Did some digging a few days ago and found Hori is releasing a new model of their GC controller in July, but this time with added back buttons, gyro, and wireless functionality. PDP and PowerA also have their own officially licensed GC controller alternative, but Hori's generally considered to be the best (aside from of course the real thing).

[JG]

I never liked it was much as the N64 controller. The Nintendo model doesn't have very comfortable grips and the right hand button layout is rather radical compared to the standard 4 button cardinal direction layout we have today. I know where they were going with it - one primary button surrounded by three smaller ones - and it worked well for Nintendo-specific games like Super Mario Sunshine, Wind Waker, and Metroid Prime, but I imagine it did not work so well for games on multiple consoles. I could imagine a Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat type game being very unusual on a GameCube controller. Clearly it was problematic because Nintendo went back to the standard 4 button layout with same sized buttons for the DS and continued with it for 3DS and Switch. On the other hand I thought it had a fine thumbstick and shoulder buttons, and a more appropriate weight thanks to the built-in rumbler. The N64 controller had that Rumble Pak slot and despite being gigantic it was so lightweight it felt very fragile (even though it had better build quality than the truly fragile SNES controllers.)

[Moge]

Worse than the N64 controller? Ouch. I don't see too many who really like the N64 controller, other than N64 diehards. I thought it was an okay controller. The A and B buttons on that thing still have the most satisfying button presses i've felt on any controller.

t's true the GC's button layout doesn't well suited for all genres, but the genres it is suited for, ones that are more reliant on fewer buttons, it absolutely excels in. I sorely miss pressing that overly sized A button.

[JG]

I have large hands so the N64 controller was a good fit for me, except for feeling a lot lighter than you'd expect. The SNES and GameCube controllers were both more dense (as are most controllers, especailly nowadays with built in batteries and rumblers) And a lot of people don't like the N4's "three-handed" approach, but I thought that gave it variety. More modern controllers move the analog stick to the right thumb area (with added d-pad on the left), but if the controller handles aren't shaped right, that area can interfere with grip.

GameCube controller has smooth rubber handles and its lower analog sticks get in the way of fingers wrapped around those handles. And the button arrangement did not lend itself to ported games all that well. The one thing that layout really had going for it was a standard main button (the big A) - too many games on the standard four button layout controller systems use different primaries and every game you need to relearn which button fires, which button brakes, which button changes weapons, etc. So I agree that the ideal controller would have an oversized button of the four to designate as primary.

At some point we need to do some top 10 controller posts. I'd stick to first-party hardware myself but I know you invest in Hori stuff.

[JG]

I am stoked. SquareEnix is making a worldwide presentation in a few weeks to announce all the new Dragon Quest titles for the 35th anniversary (with simultaneous English translation!) They're doing right what Nintendo's now gotten wrong twice with Mario and Zelda.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfmOWgfYVjY

[Moge]

The N64 controller's pretty sturdy and very solidly designed. If it had 2 more big face buttons i would like it a lot more. I'm compiling my top 10 list of game controllers. I do have one third-party controller on the list.

I'm half expecting a DQ collection with 4-6 to be announced. Although that might be too good of a deal and they'll probably break them up into separate releases.

[JG]

Nah, all the older DQs (1-8) are on Android and iOS now. Maybe some of them are for sale in Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft e-shops as well. Bringing a collection to modern systems doesn't do much. Unless they go full remake with cutscenes and such. Maybe not to the level of FF7 Remake, but something significantly more substantial than the originals.

DQ9 though would be a treat. It still only exists on Nintendo DS, which is effectively obsolete, and has portions of it that are inaccessible the last few years after Nintendo shut down Streetpass. It is way overdue for a port, if not a refresh.

They'll probably formally announce DQ12 here and show off the first bits of concept art. Someone on another board said they'd read a leak that the first half of the presentation will be talking about the recent year, covering things like the Adventure of Dai anime and its game, Dragon Quest Tact mobile game, moving DQ11 and Builders 2 onto the Xbox/Gamepass platform, and stuff like that, and then the second half will talk about things coming in the next year. DQ12 has best odds, though it might not port to North America and Europe until later in 2022. I'd rank a DQ9 port as next best bet. And Builders 3 as third best bet (even though its the one that would have me most excited.) They might give us a new Monsters title, or even a third Heroes game instead, but I don't think them to be as likely. A DQ10 port to North America and Europe is very unlikely in my opinion - I don't think this game will ever leave Japan, and if does it'll be 2 years to either side of the release of a new mainline game like DQ12.

[Moge]

Retro gamers don't particularly view mobile gaming favorably, which is why a rerelease of the DS games on console would be a huge deal.

I've seen some people say a DQ X that's retinkered to be offline would be a way to get the game to western audiences.

[JG]

Retro gamers don't particularly view mobile gaming favorably, which is why a rerelease of the DS games on console would be a huge deal.

Well obviously action games just don't translate well. But turn-based RPGs like the Dragon Quest games are acceptable because there's no real time component involved.

DQ10 would be a nice-to-have, but at this late stage I'm not sure its worth them bringing it west. Unless SquareEnix is trying to port it to PS5 and Series X, giving them a new opportunity to localize it. But its not coming anytime soon if DQ12 is on the table. Also, a new Monsters title was confirmed as one of the games to be announced, being worked a prequel to DQ11 featuring the thief Erik. So at minimum it sounds like DQ12, new Monsters, and Infinity Strash will be covered - but I really hope they fit DQB3 in there too.

[JG]

Totally not what I expected last night. Almost not worth staying up past midnight it was so light on details and gameplay video.

Here's the recap:

ANNOUNCEMENT	WORLDWIDE?	WHEN?	FOR WHAT?
Metal Slime wristwatch, Metal Slime t-shirt, Slime-print polkadot button up shirt	Japan-only	Unknown
Dragon Quest Eraser A Puyo-puyo like mobile game	Unknown	2021	Phones & tablets
Dragon Quest X Online 5.5	Japan-only	Summer 2021	PC, Consoles?
Dragon Quest X Online 6	Japan-only	Late 2021	PC, Consoles?
Dragon Quest X Offline Simplified graphics and potentially stripped down story	Unknown	Japan - 2022	Unknown
Dragon Quest III HD-2D DQ3 remade in Octopath Traveller's engine	Yes, simultaneous	Late 2021	Consoles
Dragon Quest I & II HD-2D Horii let it slip they would likely remake these next, indicating they are probably already working on it	Unknown	Unknown
Dragon Quest Treasures Like Monsters but focusing on Treasure hunting rather than collecting/breeding monsters. Uses the Erik and Mia childhood assets previously expected for the next Monsters game.	Yes, simultaneous	Unknown	Consoles
Dragon Quest XII: The Flames of Fate Only showed off the title, no concept art, photos or gameplay.	Planned simultaneous, but not certain	Unknown	Unknown

Hope Moge is right about the offline DQX port. And hope its sooner rather than later. At present the only game confirmed for the West during the 35th anniversary year is a so-so remake of an earlier game in the series. (Remind you of Mario 3D All Stars last year?)

None of the games got a firm release date. They didn't discuss Infinity Strash at all indicating it was likely covered in the Japan-only hour that preceeded the worldwide hour (and thus not coming to the west.) Horii said there will be another Monsters game someday, but didn't say when and hoped Treasures attracts the same type of players. No news on a DQ9 port. No news on a Builders 3. DQX Offline was the only one that showed off more than maybe 20 seconds of actual game play - with most videos showing non-game content or prerendered video cutscenes from the games. Overall a failure based on how little they actually said and showed off. Its nice to know DQX Offline and Treasures are coming, but without a date the whole announcement show felt like it could have done with a press release. And the DQ12 announcement didn't give us any thing we didn't already know, except the subtitle. All hype, very little substance last night.

[JG]

In case you missed the news yesterday, Nintendo will be having a full sized, 40 minute long Nintendo Direct to air the morning of June 15. Its going to be simulcast for the Japanese audience as well (1 am at night there), so some big news is likely coming. At least for English speaking audiences, it'll continue with Treehouse gameplay videos the rest of the day, as is typical for their E3 telecasts.

https://www.nintendo.com/whatsnew/detail/2021/nintendo-announces-its-activities-for-this-years-all-virtual-e3/

It'll focus primarily on games releasing in second half of 2021, rather than future stuff. Some of the games certain to be covered extensively are Mario Golf Super Rush, Skyward Sword HD, and Pokemon Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl. Probably going to see Ace Attorney Collection, Legend of Mana, Monster Hunter Stories 2, Lego Stars Wars Skywalker Saga, Hyrule Warriors DLC, and ten to twelve others (some of which already exist on other platforms like Fall Guys), plus a few addons like the Skyward Sword series Amiibo and themed Joycons. I think we'll see the Christmas season game formally announced too, which is most likely the Zelda sequel, as Metroid Prime 4 is probably still too far off and Splatoon 3 is still planned for 2022. I suspect the Hyrule Warriors DLC wave 1 will be made available upon conclusion of the presentation, with the rumor that November's wave 2 ties into the BOTW sequel confirmed during the video.

They say the presentation will focus entirely on games, but I'll be astonished if they don't mention the new hardware and when its available. Everyone knows the existing chipset is no longer being made and the ability to construct Switch consoles with the current motherboard and chipset format will end very soon. Furthermore, Nintendo is obligated to provide availability notice to retailers no later than mid-July or else they will no longer be assured of receiving any new Switch console hardware after its expected to run out in August or September. If you aren't announcing it at E3, with a worldwide audience, why bother trying to keep a secret these last 10-12 months?

[Moge]

Going a year without E3 and not having one centralized event made me realized how much i missed the spectacle. Two things i want out of the whole event: Splatoon 3 and for the Switch upgrade to be revealed. I'm certain i'll see the former, but the latter? Who knows. There's some rumor going around it's supposed to be shown before the event, but i'm not counting on it. Other games i'm hyped to see: Bayonetta 3, Metroid Prime 4, BotW 2, Perfect Dark, and hopefully some fighting game news out of Capcom. Here's the current E3 schedule for those interested -- https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E2-hQDNXwAMvoa3?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[JG]

Well all the announcements that normally happen at an E3 still happen, only virtually or at a separate press conference. The thing that is really missed is input from industry experts on gameplay and other details.

For example, the Cyberpunk debacle from last year would have never happened if it were playable on the show floor and independent playtesters saw how buggy it was. It would have been indication to developer that they'd need to fix it before release or push back release for more time, and most importantly, to not try to sneak the PC version pass reviewers as 'identical' to the Playstation and Xbox version's sorry performance. Instead, CD Projekt Red was able to pass off the PC version as definitive for all, and it fooled some reviewers into giving it superb ratings for the consoles on blind trust, or worse, tricked a few awards programs to give it awards it clearly did not deserve. Gamescom gave it the best Playstation Game and Best in Show award last year despite not having played either the PS4 or PS5 version prior to making the award. Given this disaster from 2020 it is impossible to trust any 'Game of the Year' designation for 2021 without it being played by multiple independent reviewers first. CD Projekt Red poisoned the well. (Even investors are suing them for false claims which inflated stock price in 2020 before crashing after the game's release.)


I see Ubisoft's presentation is Saturday. Any takers on Beyond Good and Evil 2 finally making an appearance? We're only 3-4 weeks before it overtakes Duke Nukem Forever's 14 year, 2 month plus development hell. Either Ubisoft makes good on it and it finally shows up this year, or its effectively an admission that its complete vaporware and what they showed a few years back was a hoax.
They've also (finally) got another Rabbids game, and its coming to Switch, but its not a sequel to the Mario + Rabbids tactical game that (for a long while) was the best selling third-party title on Switch which pretty much demands a sequel. It's one of 14 third party games to surpass 1 million unit sales, and is still fourth in total third party sales - why wouldn't Ubisoft cash in on a sequel if you've only been beaten by the impressive Monster Hunter Rise, the cross-platform phenomenon of Minecraft, and the Japanese only Momotaro Densetsu? Ubisoft is literally leaving money on the table by choosing to develop a Mario Party competitor rather than the Mario + Rabbids sequel. I just don't see Rabbids Adventure Party reaching that two million sales benchmark when Mario Party completely dominates that genre.

Microsoft really needs to say when Halo Infinite will drop during their Sunday presentation. They've already been given an extra seven months to work on it and badly, badly, badly need it. PS5 is utterly destroying them in sales by over 2 to 1 (and the Switch is beating them too), and Microsoft's already missed the option to release the game in time for summer, when kids (teenagers ideally) are at home more, without school work, and able to play video games more often. GamePass has been a savior but its nearly saturated the market and Microsoft is now almost having to give away short-term GamePass subscriptions to keep their gaming division afloat and needs powerhouse titles for the X to keep waning interest. Dropping the price on the Series S by $100 and introducing a Series SX that adds in the optical drive would be welcome announcement. The current prices just don't justify the game selection. (That Perfect Dark reboot would help, not not as much as Halo Infinite.)

SquareEnix already covered the Dragon Quest items, so I guess they'll show off FF7 Intergrade and next FF7 Remake title. Probably some more on that Project Athia / Forspoken game that looked very impressive last year. I'd appreciate it if they put some dates on the DQ items but I'd bet they don't. (If they didn't know 10 days ago, its unlikely they'll know 7 days from now.)

I am a little interested in Take-Two's presentation. They gave us the BioShock and XCOM collections last year at E3, so I wonder if they'd got sequels in the works. If I had to guess, I'd say its time for a Red Dead Redemption 3. And a Grand Theft Auto 6 if they ever got around to it (they've been living off GTA5 for 8 years now.) Not that either game particularly interests me. Civilization VI has been on sale repeatedly over the last year or so, and a VII is due.

I know Capcom will show off the Ace Attorney collection (and maybe a new game in the series?) but no idea on a fighting game. It would be an ideal time to introduce Street Fighter VI since V is now five years old, Mortal Kombat 11 is two years old and obviously between releases, and no sign of the next Smash Bros yet. If SF6 isn't announced this year, going into next year could get all three announced, which in my opinion would be a disaster for the Street Fighter series.

Bandai Namco probably brings a new Tekken this year or next, as well. I know they'll at least mention the new Dragonball Kakarot DLC but no idea what else.

Warner Bros is supposed to have two Justice League games but the one that interests me the most, and disappoints the most, is Hogwart's Legacy. I see it as a whiff on not providing a Switch version that allows the player to control the wand with a Switch Joycon, or flicking spells on the touchscreen. That would have been a fun - and different - gaming experience.

I hope Paranoia finally gets a release date set during Steam Fest week. It was announced E3 2019, said in 2020 it was going to release "soon", and it now been a year with practically no news. Either stuck in development hell finishing up the polish on what looked like a nearly complete game - or something has gone horribly wrong.

I also heard the rumor that Nintendo might drop the news on the Switch upgrade this week (I read the 10th). I still find the timing unlikely, but if they do it comes off as damage control, to try to get the news out of the way before one of the third party presenters spills the beans. Say, if Ubisoft comes along on the 12th and says Rabbids Adventure Party is being designed for Switch and Switch Pro to release on November 12 or so, what left does Nintendo have to say about it on the 15th (except maybe price)? Only way Nintendo controls the release news is to do it themselves. Should have already and they may have realized that its now panic time. If the announcement comes this week, after hyping the E3/Treehouse event 15th as their next presentation, then its because they painted themselves into a corner and have to preempt Ubisoft or one of the other presenters.

[JG]

Speaking of Capcom, they just had a copyright infringement lawsuit dropped on them Friday. Looking at the source material, its hard to argue they aren't very guilty.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Juracek+vs+Capcom

This may (likely will) cost them millions of dollars in damages, might delay future games as they review for any new infringements (Resident Evil Village almost certainly to be delayed further), and might even lead to some of their games being pulled off of shelves or out of e-shops (particularly Resident Evil 4 since one of the copyrighted photos is used in the numeral "4" of the title artwork.)